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Lindsey Tramuta's avatar

Kept nodding all the way through this! And I had a similar reaction to Elizabeth’s post. For some (I’d wager even MANY), the day to day measurably changes when you leave wherever home was. I feel like you: Costco and the local farmstead or Marché are absolutely nothing alike, especially in the sensation they procure.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

Looking forward to your interviews Lindsey! Adding your book to my reading list as well, the subtitle caught my eye. Something I'm exploring right now is this idea of "Scenius" from Brian Eno. He talks about genius in the collective form due to the right mix of people in a physical location (ie. Renaissance in Florence, 1920's Paris, Silicon Valley, etc.)

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Lindsey Tramuta's avatar

Thank you so so much and what a great rec to read Eno!

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Janet Asante Sullivan's avatar

Completely agree with this. When we are in our home countries we play a “role” a script that at times was just handed to us or we chose. When you live in another country for a while, the script and your role changes completely. This then allows you to become another layer of you, experience another aspect of you that was buried in the home country. We hold multitudes and one tangible way to meet a new layer is to be in a total new setting.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

Great point about the layers Janet - reminds me of this quote I found recently:

"A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born" - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

I completely agree with you, Janet. I've had the same thoughts and experiences. I even wrote about this topic this morning, and I might publish it in the next few days.

Moving to the U.K. when I was 21 changed my life. It freed me from the labels of "immigrant daughter" and "guestworker daughter." This helped me see myself in a new light and truly expanded my horizons.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

Hey Tuğba - I'd also love to check this out, drop it here in the thread once you post it!

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Hi Brian, this was my take on the topic :) Happy Holidays!

https://tugbaavci.substack.com/p/moving-abroad-wont-fix-you-but-it

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Janet Asante Sullivan's avatar

I’d love to read it. I, too, navigate being an immigrant (to the US) I’m in my late 40s, arrived in the US when I was 8 years old. Looking forward to launching my last born into college soon then making a move to a new country to explore my multitudes, however uncomfortable it might be.

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Janet Asante Sullivan's avatar

Spot on quote

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Brenna's avatar

When I first started dating my husband he took me to Costco for the first time. I had a very visceral reaction. The overconsumption seemed insane to me. I got the heebee jeebies in there.

Even in the US I worked so hard to eat food free of chemicals. I belonged to a CSA program where I got all my fruit and veg. I bought a $12 loaf of homemade sourdough for the week. My avocados were from my yard. It was so expensive and I had to be so conscientious! In Italy I never have to worry about this again.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

At least they have free samples at Costco 🤷🏼‍♂️

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Emily Brooke Felt's avatar

This makes me laugh out loud. Living in Spain for almost a decade and then returning to the US was a shock. A friend took me to Costco with her and I took a photo of us at the checkout with carts that resemble flatbed trailers. It honestly looks more like we’re delivering supplies for humanitarian aid than simply grocery shopping. In the end both the US and Spain hold special places in my heart, because I have a sense of humor about the US and all its excesses and love the good about both places.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

I forgot about the flatbed trailers 😂

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Jesse's avatar

Same - I was overseas for about 15 years. Australia, London, Italy, and when I came back to the US I had such bad depression. It was visceral. I'm still here, but who knows for how much longer.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

Reminds me of this classic YT clip of a guy coming back to the US from the Philippines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwpikq2h1Pg&list=PL9Q3wcpGsduP29C8XB0Z7xcZ3k9E7Z-gE

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Emily Brooke Felt's avatar

Yes, I feel like once you’ve lived in different places there’s a tendency to want to do it again. My son was so influenced by our time living in Barcelona that he opted to go back for a part of his high school. And as a family we constantly dream of doing it again, and the new adventures we will have.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

I think it's such a great gift you gave to your son Emily, in the end, he'll have the option to choose what's best for him.

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Patrick Sharbaugh's avatar

In 2007 I moved to Japan for a two-month sabbatical. I found the culture, the history, the urban geography and the lifestyle so compelling I stayed for a year. I then moved to Southeast Asia, where I lived for six years, and on to Melbourne, Australia, for another four years. I was never happier. In 2018, circumstances returned me to the United States again.

I cannot begin to describe what a punishment it felt like to live in the US again. The ubiquitous gun violence, the vitriolic political divisions, the insane consumerism, the unconscionable cost of healthcare and insurance, the unwalkable cities, the fetishization of automobiles, the live-to-work culture, the sheer emotional and mental and financial cost of living.

In September 2024 I moved again — to Lisbon, Portugal. I can walk everywhere I need to go, whether to a half dozen parks, scores of cafes, restaurants and swanky cocktail bars, my own workplace, my many new friends' homes, or the supermarket or fresh produce market. I do not miss a single thing about the United States and I do not expect to be a resident there ever again.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

Six years in Southeast Asia must have been a blast! I did about a month in Thailand last year and I'm itching to get back there.

Awesome you made the jump to Lisbon, I'll give you a shout next time I pass through

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Patrick Sharbaugh's avatar

Do, Brian.

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Kirsten Powers's avatar

This is the piece I’ve been wanting to write but haven’t had time. I will link to this when I finally write it. I’ve also yet to meet all these messed up expats that seem to flock to that author. Everyone I’ve met is supremely mentally healthy bc they made a decision to leave places that made them unhealthy. Thx for this!

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Liza Debevec's avatar

Brian, you make some important points here, and I absolutely agree that living in Barcelona can be amazing (don’t even get me started on how much I love calçots, vermut, escalivada, empedrat, and other Catalan delights). That said, using another Substack writer’s work as a springboard for your own success by tearing it down feels in poor taste. Elizabeth’s contributions to the community go beyond the single article you’ve critiqued, and you could have made your point without targeting hers.

While I didn’t resonate with the tone of that particular piece either, I can confirm that, as a European who has lived as an expat in both Europe and two African countries—and has traveled extensively—I’ve encountered the kinds of people Elizabeth describes. There are those who were seen as failures in their home countries and, thanks to economic differences in their new host country, enjoy a lifestyle that allows them to parade their newfound success without considering the negative impact their presence might have on the local community.

I’ve also met people who relentlessly champion their new life abroad while glossing over its downsides. While I’m not suggesting that Substack is full of such individuals, I’d love to see friendlier engagement here. Take a look at some of Elizabeth’s other posts—she’s generous in promoting fellow writers and exploring diverse perspectives on expat life in Europe.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

Hey Liza - thanks for dropping by! To be clear, I was not using Elizabeth's work as any sort of springboard, I was just in disbelief at what she wrote and felt compelled to reply.

The vibe I got is that she discourages people from exploring and seeing what other alternate lifestyle they could be living. Specifically the line about life being the same no matter where you live is a direct contrast to the way I see the world. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt after reading so I commented but her replies shocked me even more than the article itself. Maybe the fact that we're a different demographic has something to do with our viewpoints and the people we encounter.

Anyways, we all have different opinions, still happy to share a vermut with you anytime you're in BCN :)

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Katharina's avatar

"If you spend your entire existence in one location, you’ll reduce your exposure to alternate ways of living. By moving to a new country, you’ll inhabit different philosophies and it might even unlock lifestyle qualities you didn’t know you desired."

This rings so true to me. When you grow up in one place and you stay in that place your entire life, you rob yourself from the possibility of knowing. Understanding how life can also be lived. Discovering alternate ways of living that might resonate so much more with who you are than the ones that you are used to.

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Edwin's avatar

You’re 100% correct. We moved ten years ago from Royal Palm Beach, FL to greater Las Vegas and two weeks ago from Vegas to the London area. I couldn’t agree with you more. We are here to be near my

Wife’s family — and I love it and I know this is the right move at our stage of life. AND — no car needed!!!!

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

What a small world, very familiar with Royal Palm, we're basically neighbors!

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Edwin's avatar

My wife is friends with your family, and that’s how I found your blog. Keep up the great work. It’s appreciated!

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John Griffith's avatar

This article/post...whatever, speaks to my soul, which is why my wife and I live, and travel, in a 30' airstream. We have surveyed much of the American West. Of course EU is its own thing and a unique experience, but when visiting some places there is a complete emotional dissonance and in others, a feeling of simpatico. Over time, the difference between these two feelings will take root in your psyche like either a tree or a weed.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

I heard a great quote recently - They were discussing Jerusalem on a podcast and the guest said: “It is so magnetic. Places have charisma just as people do”

I like your analogy of the tree and weed as well!

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Emanuela B's avatar

I've lived in three countries outside my own, and each of them has shaped me, adding pieces to the cultural puzzle of who I am today. Even through the challenges of French bureaucracy, the relentless rain in the Netherlands, or being robbed on Las Ramblas, I’ve never regretted living abroad.

Of course, I still love my country and dream of having a farm in Tuscany, like so many others. But I also know I left because of unemployment, as many do, as Elizabeth mentioned. Ultimately, that decision transformed my life. I can only encourage others to seize opportunities and try to become someone new, somewhere new.

After years in the Netherlands, now back in France, I bike every day! When my Italian friends complain about the rain, I just head outside. After all, as I learned in Holland, we’re not made of sugar!

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Samantha's avatar

I love this! One of the ideas I’ve been grappling with lately is at the core of this debate - the idea that happiness is a mindset and “it’s our thoughts about a scenario that create our experience of that reality.” Yes that probably is true, but as you amazingly captured - some realities and experiences make it a whole lot easier to be happy!!

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Sue Kusch's avatar

Developing a sense of place wherever I lived is who I am. After 15 years in a semi-rural setting, I am ready for a change, an urban setting with walkability, culture, and nature. But unfortunately, the price I pay to follow this desire is to go solo. My partner of 11 years is not interested. So, I am slowly preparing for both of those dramatic changes.

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Wow, Sue, that's so brave of you. It's also very inspiring that you're taking this step for yourself. I love it. I wish you the best of luck on your journey. Moving in my 20s really changed my life, and I think I'll write about it in my next post. Now I'm 40, and I'm thinking about moving again.

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Jeanne Elbe's avatar

I research moving abroad a lot.

I have got it down to 3 countries, then I realized I could stay a few months in each before deciding. My widowed sister just retired before 65 and moved to Scotland to join her only daughter and new family. She is loving it.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

The best research is boots on the ground! Spend 30-90 days in each of the three locations and see which one resonates the most.

I'll also recommend you this piece I wrote earlier this year:

https://serendipitylab.substack.com/p/on-finding-a-new-home

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Jeanne Elbe's avatar

Thanks Brian!

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Emily Ann Hill's avatar

Funny you used the Costco vs. local frutería example — last month I went to Costco for the first time in my life and HOLY COW the culture shock. Granted, I was recruited to help shop for a post-wedding brunch for 60+ people, so buying muffins in bulk did make sense financially. But passing through the produce section shook me to my core. I couldn't tell if the fruit looked gray because of the metal warehouse fluorescent lighting or because it was all grown in a genetically modified assembly line. And unless you own a restaurant, who needs a 36-pack of avocados?

Such a great read, I'm going to send this to people whenever they ask me why I live where I do.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

Going to Costco for the first time as an adult must be such a funny experience.

As for the bulk purchase of avocados, I think that's why I'm seeing all these videos circulating on IG and TikTok about how to preserve your avos by keeping them in water 😂

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Emily Brooke Felt's avatar

Brian you know I’m a Spain fan like you, but I really loved this article. Great job on your rebuttal of the cynicism of thinking that our choices and urban environments don’t matter. Where we live is such an important part of how we live, and one of the things I love about Barcelona is being out at midnight in a plaza and seeing babies in strollers, kiddos running rampant and old folks with canes all still up and awake and enjoying life. Beautiful article.

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

Thanks Emily! The inter-generational mixing at all hours of the day is something special.

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Lindsey Fears's avatar

Greetings from Texas! This helps put into words what I have been feeling lately - a strong pull to move to Europe. It would be my husband and I and our young daughter, so there’s a lot to consider. Our first year of marriage, my husband and I moved to New Zealand. It was life changing - albeit the scenery was gorgeous but it was the people that made our experience wonderful! It’s one of the only places that has ever felt like home.

Since then, we’ve moved a lot.. various states in the US but mostly in Texas. I feel the need and desire to live in a place like how you describe Barcelona is - walkable, arts, theatre (good and HEALTHY food!), parks. I would imagine that having connections with people and making friends would be easier? I.e. you don’t have to drive everywhere like you mentioned.

I like that you referred to the “wherever you are, there you are” quote. I have been feeling like maybe there’s something wrong with me because of my nomadic spirit…. By others alluding to the notion that maybe it’s internal and that I just need to be content 🤷‍♀️ So thanks so much for writing this, it helps me think maybe there’s not anything wrong with me for wanting to move abroad!

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Brian Wiesner's avatar

Welcome Lindsey! I'm glad you stumbled across my essay, regarding what you mentioned about the ease of connections, bumping into friends is just a natural progression of the day. It doesn't take as much planning to maintain friendships.

Part of the reason I named my Substack Serendipity Lab is because I noticed how much more of this I experienced after moving to a denser city where you have proximity to basic amenities within walking distance.

Check out Zero to Travel podcast for more inspiration, I believe he's interviewed some families who have made the transition :)

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Lindsey Fears's avatar

Thank you! And all very well said! Serendipity is so important and I don’t think I’ve realized how much so it is in regards to connecting with other people. I will check out the podcast, thanks!

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