Thanks for this. My experience as someone who has lived in the US and UK, and spent a lot of time in Europe does suggest that sociality in so-called third places is important for places that seem lively. It was interesting during COVID that enforced separate led to weird kinds of third places for those of us with enough affluence found times where street corners or parks became outdoor gathering spots (when they were allowed) with heightened significance. Al fresco street dining also seemed to help - even in Edinburgh's rain.
“Every time I walk downstairs I feel like I’m “refreshing the timeline” of my neighborhood” — love that line! Finding my third places has been the best part of living outside of the US, and even if I ever moved back, it would be something I prioritize/seek out. Feeling a part of your community simply by existing is so under-appreciated.
Yes pull on this thread a bit. Feeling part of the community without needing to exert special effort. Well, maybe except for putting on some clothes before bounding out the door. A nostalgic throwback? Attainable?
Can we also stipulate that a good Third Place needs to feel energizing?
Literally just before I sat down to write my weekly article I tried going to my local library, which, tbh, is NOT filled with energizing people. It's mostly very old people who don't speak. I did not feel energized there.
Also, can we stipulate Third Places that are open late into the night? I'd love a cafe or bookshop to work or write in but they all close in the US at like 3 pm.
Still looking for a good Third Place in suburbia US. Wish I could provide a good example, but can't think of one yet.
Great points Renee, the ambiance is key! Libraries can be good Third Places but it's tricky because people go there expecting silence. I'm curious, where exactly do you live?
I also noticed how many coffee shops back in Florida close so early, it's so strange. One of the criteria for Third Places is that they are ready to serve people’s needs for sociability and relaxation in the intervals before, between, and after their mandatory appearances at the First and Second Place.
I'm in Roswell, GA, USA. A car-centric suburb of Atlanta. I don't think I used to mind working at the library until I needed something different - plenty of people get stuff done there.
Funnily enough, Costco was a big social moment for my mom and I today. We ran into an old friend and caught up with her for like 30 mins. Serendipity....? :D
My wife and I live in SW Florida and also spend part of the year in Canton, GA, just up the road from you. In both places we need to jump in a car to travel to a place where we might enjoy a chance encounter over coffee or snacks. Most days it just takes too much effort to do that. That lack of spontaneity sort of kills the thought before it leads anywhere. Nobody hangs out at the Costco closest to either location.
Hello neighbor! And you're right, Costco is not a typical hangout spot... but you know, bc there are fewer of them, it's almost like a reservoir where you're bound to run into people on the weekend bc it funnels people in the surrounding area.
Seems like car culture should take the brunt of the blame. America, particularly suburbia, is a built environment only made possible by the car---it's so easy to get in the little moving box, jet from one place to the next without having to "waste" any time, all in the name of efficiency, and so much is lost. I love the old cities with their town squares that were built before cars were a consideration. Or the downtowns (like here in Boulder, Colorado) where a street has been consciously dedicated to pedestrians. If we start getting used to traveling by means other than cars, maybe people would be more open to hanging out instead of getting to the destination so quickly?
This is such an important topic brother, thanks for writing on it. Not sure how we'll turn the tide on the template suburban construction in the US, but major cities can and may in the future invest in making sure local businesses can a. survive first, through incentives or actual legislation and b. provide this necessary space for communal connection! Tough when people work 40-60hr weeks just to survive ofc. The economics right now are so messed up that a life in the US that isn't saturated with things to do and tech numbification to real sensory experiences seems unlikely. Luckily covid did show us how much we literally require in person connection and spaces to hang.
Appreciate you following along man, I'm curious to see what happens in the coming years. There are some cities in the U.S. that are paying attention to these things and those places are the places that will end up attracting the most people. Density is a key factor and it seems like many people are against that for some reason. Let's see...
1000% true. I fight for and work to create these spaces in my late 1800s neighborhood. Luckily we have the built environment to bring these spaces back online. The suburbs are handcuffed for many reasons, which is part of the reason I could never live there.
Some of the last remaining third places in America: dog parks and playgrounds.
My go-to third place in Vancouver is Kits Beach: full of regulars playing beach volleyball and basketball, picnicking on the grass, watching their kids at the playground, or working out at the calisthenics area. Living close is well worth the premium I pay in rent.
Oh, and challenge to anyone reading this: Introduce yourself to a familiar face you see all the time on the bus, at the cafe, at the gym, in the park, or wherever. That's how it starts. It's worth it.
Love your challenge - I'm coming to visit you in Vancouver one day 👊🏼
And speaking of dog parks, check out this concept that one of my friends in Atlanta told me about, it's a "dog park social hub": https://fetchpark.com/
Love to read about your experiences running into people in Barcelona, this happens almost daily in Sevilla and I am not surprised at all to read that these encounters give us a spike of serotonin. I wonder if the spike is doubled by living this in an environment that's not your home country? I feel so a part of life here when it happens that it always serves as a quiet reminder, "you have built a life here!"
I think you may be onto something with the idea that there’s this special something about not being in your home country. Seems that when I travel I feel this more often than not. Personal spike experience like this over the years in coffee shops in places like Lisbon, Paris, Bilbao, Salzburg.
The idea of third spaces is such a foreign concept to me, but I must still crave it or something similar. I guess this is why I keep hosting parties 😅. Forget being introverted, extroverted or ambiverted. We all need connection.
Thanks for this post. I learned something new. When I moved to Sweden in 2019, I found myself always outside and walking around (despite the cold!) because I could and because the layout of the city, Stockholm, makes you want to. In Connecticut, by contrast, I had to drive to the park to walk the dog, which was the most depressing thing ever.
it's interesting – hong kong, which is one of the most walkable cities in the world, also has the highest life expectancy in the world. i've always wondered if it's more than just correlation.
question for you: what do you think of online third places vs. physical third places? is physical always better? curious to hear your thoughts.
Should we first build those third places or create an economy where people don't need to have 2 jobs and 3 side gigs to make ends meet. You can have the best third places that will not make a difference if all the potential uses only live to work and sleep
Good point - ideally Third Places should be free or low cost and they should be within walking distance so no transportation costs either. If someone has to have 2 jobs and 3 side gigs just to make ends meet then there's a deeper underlying problem.
Thanks for this. My experience as someone who has lived in the US and UK, and spent a lot of time in Europe does suggest that sociality in so-called third places is important for places that seem lively. It was interesting during COVID that enforced separate led to weird kinds of third places for those of us with enough affluence found times where street corners or parks became outdoor gathering spots (when they were allowed) with heightened significance. Al fresco street dining also seemed to help - even in Edinburgh's rain.
Thanks for the reflection Tim, I went to Edinburgh last year and really enjoyed myself there.
Also love the title of your Substack, Place does indeed Matter.
“Every time I walk downstairs I feel like I’m “refreshing the timeline” of my neighborhood” — love that line! Finding my third places has been the best part of living outside of the US, and even if I ever moved back, it would be something I prioritize/seek out. Feeling a part of your community simply by existing is so under-appreciated.
Feeling part of your community simply by existing - I like that too, I'm going to pull on that thread a bit.
Yes pull on this thread a bit. Feeling part of the community without needing to exert special effort. Well, maybe except for putting on some clothes before bounding out the door. A nostalgic throwback? Attainable?
Can we also stipulate that a good Third Place needs to feel energizing?
Literally just before I sat down to write my weekly article I tried going to my local library, which, tbh, is NOT filled with energizing people. It's mostly very old people who don't speak. I did not feel energized there.
Also, can we stipulate Third Places that are open late into the night? I'd love a cafe or bookshop to work or write in but they all close in the US at like 3 pm.
Still looking for a good Third Place in suburbia US. Wish I could provide a good example, but can't think of one yet.
Great points Renee, the ambiance is key! Libraries can be good Third Places but it's tricky because people go there expecting silence. I'm curious, where exactly do you live?
I also noticed how many coffee shops back in Florida close so early, it's so strange. One of the criteria for Third Places is that they are ready to serve people’s needs for sociability and relaxation in the intervals before, between, and after their mandatory appearances at the First and Second Place.
I'm in Roswell, GA, USA. A car-centric suburb of Atlanta. I don't think I used to mind working at the library until I needed something different - plenty of people get stuff done there.
Funnily enough, Costco was a big social moment for my mom and I today. We ran into an old friend and caught up with her for like 30 mins. Serendipity....? :D
My wife and I live in SW Florida and also spend part of the year in Canton, GA, just up the road from you. In both places we need to jump in a car to travel to a place where we might enjoy a chance encounter over coffee or snacks. Most days it just takes too much effort to do that. That lack of spontaneity sort of kills the thought before it leads anywhere. Nobody hangs out at the Costco closest to either location.
Hello neighbor! And you're right, Costco is not a typical hangout spot... but you know, bc there are fewer of them, it's almost like a reservoir where you're bound to run into people on the weekend bc it funnels people in the surrounding area.
🎯🎯🎯 I’ve tried working a three different libraries. I can’t. The ambience is awful!
Having a bit of luck with university libraries.
The best coworking space is partially outdoors with lots of plant life and beautiful people around
Lol beautiful people. I may get distracted hahaha
Hey you said energizing and that’s what energizes me
Seems like car culture should take the brunt of the blame. America, particularly suburbia, is a built environment only made possible by the car---it's so easy to get in the little moving box, jet from one place to the next without having to "waste" any time, all in the name of efficiency, and so much is lost. I love the old cities with their town squares that were built before cars were a consideration. Or the downtowns (like here in Boulder, Colorado) where a street has been consciously dedicated to pedestrians. If we start getting used to traveling by means other than cars, maybe people would be more open to hanging out instead of getting to the destination so quickly?
This is such an important topic brother, thanks for writing on it. Not sure how we'll turn the tide on the template suburban construction in the US, but major cities can and may in the future invest in making sure local businesses can a. survive first, through incentives or actual legislation and b. provide this necessary space for communal connection! Tough when people work 40-60hr weeks just to survive ofc. The economics right now are so messed up that a life in the US that isn't saturated with things to do and tech numbification to real sensory experiences seems unlikely. Luckily covid did show us how much we literally require in person connection and spaces to hang.
Appreciate you following along man, I'm curious to see what happens in the coming years. There are some cities in the U.S. that are paying attention to these things and those places are the places that will end up attracting the most people. Density is a key factor and it seems like many people are against that for some reason. Let's see...
Building/maintaining 3rd places would be a good way for the government to employ a lot of people for a positive end when we all lose our jobs to AI.
Oooo I like where you're going with this 👌🏼
1000% true. I fight for and work to create these spaces in my late 1800s neighborhood. Luckily we have the built environment to bring these spaces back online. The suburbs are handcuffed for many reasons, which is part of the reason I could never live there.
Some of the last remaining third places in America: dog parks and playgrounds.
My go-to third place in Vancouver is Kits Beach: full of regulars playing beach volleyball and basketball, picnicking on the grass, watching their kids at the playground, or working out at the calisthenics area. Living close is well worth the premium I pay in rent.
Oh, and challenge to anyone reading this: Introduce yourself to a familiar face you see all the time on the bus, at the cafe, at the gym, in the park, or wherever. That's how it starts. It's worth it.
Love your challenge - I'm coming to visit you in Vancouver one day 👊🏼
And speaking of dog parks, check out this concept that one of my friends in Atlanta told me about, it's a "dog park social hub": https://fetchpark.com/
He met his girlfriend here, really cool idea.
Wow, that photo labeled "Real photo of Henderson, Nevada" needed that label since it's 😮.
The first part of your post reminded me of this hilarious song, "Why am I anxious?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbmP2c6TGKc
I love hearing about your ping pong friends and what non-US life is like in general.
The US definitely has a lot to learn.
Señor Ryan - I can't thank you enough for introducing me to this song 😂
You'll have to come out for a ping pong match one day!
Love to read about your experiences running into people in Barcelona, this happens almost daily in Sevilla and I am not surprised at all to read that these encounters give us a spike of serotonin. I wonder if the spike is doubled by living this in an environment that's not your home country? I feel so a part of life here when it happens that it always serves as a quiet reminder, "you have built a life here!"
I think you may be onto something with the idea that there’s this special something about not being in your home country. Seems that when I travel I feel this more often than not. Personal spike experience like this over the years in coffee shops in places like Lisbon, Paris, Bilbao, Salzburg.
The idea of third spaces is such a foreign concept to me, but I must still crave it or something similar. I guess this is why I keep hosting parties 😅. Forget being introverted, extroverted or ambiverted. We all need connection.
Thanks for this post. I learned something new. When I moved to Sweden in 2019, I found myself always outside and walking around (despite the cold!) because I could and because the layout of the city, Stockholm, makes you want to. In Connecticut, by contrast, I had to drive to the park to walk the dog, which was the most depressing thing ever.
Glad you enjoyed it Laura, I love those lightbulb moments when you know something to be true and then you learn the "why" behind it :)
it's interesting – hong kong, which is one of the most walkable cities in the world, also has the highest life expectancy in the world. i've always wondered if it's more than just correlation.
question for you: what do you think of online third places vs. physical third places? is physical always better? curious to hear your thoughts.
https://resurgencejourney.substack.com/p/from-place-triggers-to-community. PS reaad Karen Christensen who is rewriting Oldenberg’s book
Should we first build those third places or create an economy where people don't need to have 2 jobs and 3 side gigs to make ends meet. You can have the best third places that will not make a difference if all the potential uses only live to work and sleep
Good point - ideally Third Places should be free or low cost and they should be within walking distance so no transportation costs either. If someone has to have 2 jobs and 3 side gigs just to make ends meet then there's a deeper underlying problem.
Exactly
Refreshing the neighborhood timeline - love that one
Glad I could help with this one. Nice work Brian